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Topic: Has anyone bring any bikeshop to small claim tribunal before?

Posted on: 4th Jan 2011 11:56 AM    Quote and Reply


Haha ok I guess it really is the invasion of the MAMIL, (Middle Age Men/Mum in Lycra, substitute as appropriate for the gender concerned).

Yea I just pass by commonwealth finally after all those hoohaa in recent times of new shop here and there...
and then there is the Ubi industrial area too which seems to be the next hotspot.

But bikes biz is still small biz. One bike that wipe out profit margin for 4 bikes still something to consider... or at least coming from the mentality before the boom...  it might still take some time to adjust.

Anyway most time I dont really have issues with shops. Hardly buy anything locally or need servicing/ repair anymore.


The very last was seeing a friend get ripped off for $25 to install some old xtr crank arm that came loose.
Best part is the shop guy cant even fix the damn thing to save his cat from having a stroke and he was going on and on and on and on about how difficult that bb was to work on yaddah yaddah....and sarmore try to throw in some technical terms


... and the bloody crank arm fell off as the bike was ridden out of the shop...  

Oh by the way that was just right around Changi Point Food Center.

Forgot all about the $25 my fren paid up...I simply laugh so bloody hard... guess that was enough humiliation for the 4-eye gooky guy that sounded so professional awhile ago.





http://bikes-bikes-bikes.blogspot.sg/
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Posted on: 4th Jan 2011 4:28 PM    Quote and Reply


Quote:
"Formerly posted by cinelli99: 2. Rodalink - Very friendly staff, but not sure if they are entirely sure what they are doing!"


haha

tru dat. 

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Posted on: 4th Jan 2011 5:12 PM    Quote and Reply


TS, other than togoparts, are all these valuable information in your case going somewhere else?

This is a very important case to the Singapore cycling community,which i believe that many would like to know about. It helps us exercise our consumer rights and let those shady dealers suffer their actions.

How about some other biking community in singapore? MTB?

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Posted on: 4th Jan 2011 8:55 PM    Quote and Reply


Quote:
"Formerly posted by tazzy_72: cooperoh, you mentioned that you bought the bike from KH but got a report from a "reputable" bike builder with regards to the damge, just trying to understand, what was the intent? did you not inform the bike builder of the ongoing case before you asked him to perform the report?

actually, did you not check the bike when you first picked it up? most of us would. i guess if the damage was spotted in the shp, it would have been a no brainer for them to replace the frame, but having had the frame for 3 weeks and riding it on the road, thereafter bringing it back claiming damages would be a different point of view altogether.

i am not saying that you are trying to deceive the retailer or the courts, but i am looking at a different view from yours.

its a lesson learnt for all of us. check carefully before you leave the shop. actually, it is always better to have a friend with you to counter check as in the excitement, we could easily loose focus and not spot blemishes."


Let me post you a few questions before I answer you on your different view apart from me and the consumer's view at large. Can you find any retail right in the world beside consumer right? Who will lose more in any retail purchase if the deal is not done in uptmost good faith? Who makes the millions, consumers or retailers?

On deceiving, let me put forth to you. The Referee is convinced that the damage is not caused at my end even after 3 weeks of riding. The slowtwitch forum reply is convinced by the photos I posted, the bike builder is very accurate in his assessment. The only question the Referee was pluzzed is how come the 2 witnesses who under oath claimed that they did not see the damage when he is convinced that damage is mostly likely to occur during shipping/transportation before assembly. And since the mechanic sweared under oath he did not caused the damage, the Referee and myself cannot accused him otherwise when there is no proof to show that he did, but only possibility.
Yet KH Cycle cannot proved how I could have damage the speedskeg area where as I could with reports and photos.

http://img838.imageshack.us/i/dscn3291vo.jpg/

Now you tell me what part here you are not clear on who is trying to deceive the court? If you are still not convince, I can bring all the documents to present to you what was presented in the court.

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Posted on: 4th Jan 2011 8:57 PM    Quote and Reply


Quote:
"Formerly posted by lostsoul46: TS, other than togoparts, are all these valuable information in your case going somewhere else?

This is a very important case to the Singapore cycling community,which i believe that many would like to know about. It helps us exercise our consumer rights and let those shady dealers suffer their actions.

How about some other biking community in singapore? MTB?"


You might want to update me on where I can post my experience for all to take note of?

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Posted on: 4th Jan 2011 11:17 PM    Quote and Reply


"Let me post you a few questions before I answer you on your different view apart from me and the consumer's view at large. Can you find any retail right in the world beside consumer right? Who will lose more in any retail purchase if the deal is not done in uptmost good faith? Who makes the millions, consumers or retailers?"

I definitely would champion consumer rights. But there are those that do take advantage of the retailer's and/or manufacturer's good faith. I hope this answers your question. Thus, maybe now you would like to answer my questions posed.

One more question I have, how was the bike used during the 3 weeks that you had it in possession? Normal training rides or was it use for races? Could it have been chipped on the road?

I am not related to KH Cycle nor the bike business, I ride a Colnago but I am in a line where we sell products as well. This is an interesting case but thus far, we have only heard your side of the story. Maybe KH Cycle should come in to provide their side of the story. If you can provide more information, it would be all the better. Cheers!

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Posted on: 5th Jan 2011 7:40 PM    Quote and Reply


Quote:
"Formerly posted by tazzy_72: "Let me post you a few questions before I answer you on your different view apart from me and the consumer's view at large. Can you find any retail right in the world beside consumer right? Who will lose more in any retail purchase if the deal is not done in uptmost good faith? Who makes the millions, consumers or retailers?" I definitely would champion consumer rights. But there are those that do take advantage of the retailer's and/or manufacturer's good faith. I hope this answers your question. Thus, maybe now you would like to answer my questions posed. One more question I have, how was the bike used during the 3 weeks that you had it in possession? Normal training rides or was it use for races? Could it have been chipped on the road? I am not related to KH Cycle nor the bike business, I ride a Colnago but I am in a line where we sell products as well. This is an interesting case but thus far, we have only heard your side of the story. Maybe KH Cycle should come in to provide their side of the story. If you can provide more information, it would be all the better. Cheers!"


Dear Tazzy,

Before I continue to answer your questions. Have you seem the photos of the damage? And have you ever owned a top of the range carbon frame before?
Why these question is because I am trying to be very objective here, which I did to KH Cycle too.
I will go step by step with you. Please bear with me.

I believe you are aware of the carbon fibre characteristic right? So I do not need to explain further.
You mentioned that you are a rider, so I believe you have been involved in bike crashes before and suffered damage to your frame. Even stone chip, right?

So to your question on 'Could it have been chipped on the road?'
Let's be very very objective here, ok? No 'who knows, act of God, bla bla bla'
Seen the CSI show, think like them.

Do you think a stone chip could have caused a crack on a top of the line carbon frame?
And the stone is so accurate that it can caused a centric pinpoint impact thus crack a carbon material that was used on cars and planes. 

Be very clear, study the first photo. Then look at the 3rd photo on what the damage is. (Which I have pleaded with KH Cycle to study and investigate it, which I think they choose to ignore)

Think again. Which direction does the wheel spins? Away from the crack right? 

And there are no scratches, kinks, marks on any parts of the frame at all. Very shiny except abrasion on the bottom of the BB just what the BB hole is.

I believe I have answered your questions. I have only rode the bike 3 times when the frame was in my possession.


The photos:

http://img228.imageshack.us/i/2ndimpactpt.jpg/

http://img811.imageshack.us/i/dscn2905r.jpg/

http://img691.imageshack.us/i/dscn2988c.jpg/


Seriously, what is the difference between riding and racing in term of biking? This is road race, not MTBing.

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Posted on: 5th Jan 2011 8:23 PM    Quote and Reply


Quote:
"Formerly posted by cooperoh:
Quote:
"Formerly posted by lostsoul46: TS, other than togoparts, are all these valuable information in your case going somewhere else?

This is a very important case to the Singapore cycling community,which i believe that many would like to know about. It helps us exercise our consumer rights and let those shady dealers suffer their actions.

How about some other biking community in singapore? MTB?"


You might want to update me on where I can post my experience for all to take note of?
"


Cooperoh,

You did the right thing...and thank you for posting your experience for all to see and learn.

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Posted on: 6th Jan 2011 1:17 AM    Quote and Reply


My POV...
1) Onus is on you to do a thorough check on the frame before leaving the shop. If u're an experienced high-end carbon frame buyer (but i dunno whether u 1st time or expert), u'll know what to check for. Not mentioning that u're just checking a frame. not a whole bike. Once the frame leave the shop's doors, god knows what happened to it.

2) I think the bike builders bear some responsibility too. who knows they could be the ones who caused the damage. they swore they didnt see anything during the bike building, they words against everyone else's.

3) 3 weeks is a long time. Me as a bike shop owner of course will think twice before heeding to your requests. yes maybe there is a huge comm cock up between u, them and SCOTT. but the shop also got a business to run and they have day to day operations to attend to. to be honest, i think they are also not really wrong to give a hoot to your misfortune(3 weeks bro. 3, not 1 or 2). but still, they are technically wrong for not doing so. about the part where u're not informed abt the offer to repair and warranty extension, i think it also boils down to the level of expertise available to do the repair, hence the omission of any info passed down to you.

4) From my knowledge, KH has always been just a supplier and only recently they have their own bike shop providing cust sales and serv. i've been to that shop before and from one look i can see that they are severly undermanned (Seems like there's only 1 mechanic!)for a big shop. So far I think yr case is the most prominent for SCOTT frames in sg. I've never heard of anything major that happened to their products here before. Maybe that's why they could be in a fix while handling your case. Not taking sides here. and like i mentioned, technically they are still wrong for withholding info from you. be it intentional or not.

5) Good for you to share your experience. But i still think u can share the jizz(correct spelling?) of it by leaving out the name of the shop and the brand of frame. why i say that? the damage IMO is definitely due to handling. definitely not a manufacturer defect cuz that damage surely won't pass QC. So, it's not anyone's fault for that defect. Like what i mentioned in pt 2, if you wana mention the brand and shop's name, it's fair if you tell us who are the builders. i mean come'on... when u send in the frame to them? definitely only within a few days or hours after u left KH right? if the damage passed your eyes i really can't fathom how it can pass through some mechanics. unless u have some vested interest with them still? are u afraid that by 'shopping' them u'll lose good service with them?


disclaimer: all above is genuinely my POV. it's good sharing yr misfortune with us in order to protect clueless buyers but since this is a forum, there should be some balance. like some already mentioned, we've only heard from you. Let this be a learning experience for all. just to stress that i'm not for or against anyone. I may have missed out some details but i'm no CSI. Genuinely generalised comments. Cheers!

btw just to confirm; did u get full compensation?

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Posted on: 6th Jan 2011 8:51 AM    Quote and Reply


Quote:
"Formerly posted by relagsingh: My POV...
4) From my knowledge, KH has always been just a supplier and only recently they have their own bike shop providing cust sales and serv. i've been to that shop before and from one look i can see that they are severly undermanned (Seems like there's only 1 mechanic!)for a big shop. So far I think yr case is the most prominent for SCOTT frames in sg. I've never heard of anything major that happened to their products here before. Maybe that's why they could be in a fix while handling your case. Not taking sides here. and like i mentioned, technically they are still wrong for withholding info from you. be it intentional or not. "


EVERYONE i know who owns a Scott has had issues with frame breakages. I would NEVER buy one as a result and the way the OP ha been treated is not uncommon at all. One friend in particular deals with Scott directly now rather than go through KH because they have a standard bo chap attitude to warranty claims - although I still question why after the 3rd frame fark up he didnt sell the warranty replacement and buy something else.

I have two other friends who bought TIME road frames through KH and have identical stories to tell.

Buyer Beware. 

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